No-Knead Chewy Sandwich Rolls: one good turn deserves another


No-knead bread is all the rage – but saying it’s all the rage “lately” is somewhat of an overstatement.

Contrary to what many of us might think, no-knead bread wasn’t invented by Mark Bittman, Jim Lahey, and the New York Times back in 2006.

Absolutely, it was popularized by that landmark Times recipe. And no knead gained a ton of fans thanks to the Jeff Hertzberg and Zoë François “Five Minutes a Day” books.

But “invented”? You have to go back a lot farther than 2006 to find the first mention of no-knead.


Check out this Fleischmann’s Yeast pamphlet from 1942, for instance. Here’s Agnes, offering a new no-knead roll recipe.

And, while no knead isn’t spelled out, it’s implicit in a whole array of decades-old batter breads: Beer Bread, English Muffin Toasting Bread, the inestimable cottage cheese/dill bread… These are all breads whose soft “dough” requires only stirring or beating, not kneading.

As it turns out, even the French are into no-knead bread – and have been for many years.

Baguettes de tradition start with a high-hydration (read: very soft) “dough” that’s basically sloshed around by hand until it becomes cohesive, then folded and turned with a bowl scraper three times over the course of an hour. After a 2-hour rest, the dough is shaped into baguettes, proofed, and baked.

The result?

photo 2[1]

Crusty baguettes with incredibly open texture.

Our King Arthur Bakery makes about 300 baguettes a day; and 10% of them are made using the tradition method.


Here’s head baker Jeffrey Hamelman following the simple process. First, he crumbles fresh yeast into water. Next, he adds the flour: the bakery version of our King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour, perfect for baguettes. After stirring to combine the flour/water, Jeff mixes the very rough, very wet dough with a bowl scraper. To really get an idea of the sloppiness of this dough, let’s go to the video:

Using that same bowl scraper, Jeff works the dough three more times over the course of the next hour, 30 seconds each time. After that, the dough is divided and shaped into 30 baguettes; proofed for 2 hours; then baked into King Arthur’s own version of baguettes de tradition.

As I watched Jeff, I had a brainstorm: sub rolls! I’ve been wanting to come up with a sub roll recipe for some time, and this looked like an easy, interesting place to start.

What’s a “sub roll,” you say? Replace “sub” (short for submarine) with any of the following: grinder, hoagie, hero, Italian, po’ boy. In other words, a long, thin roll perfect for stuffing with all manner of tasty fillings.

So, why not just use a baguette?

Because to me, the perfect stuffed sandwich roll is a tiny bit softer. I like a roll that’s ultra-chewy, but one whose crust doesn’t shatter into a zillion crumbs at the first bite. I also like my sandwich rolls a bit flatter than the perfectly cylindrical baguette.

So I took our Bakery’s baguettes de tradition recipe, and tweaked it just a bit. I added olive oil and dry milk for a softer crumb; and subbed instant yeast for fresh, simply for convenience’s sake.


The result? Just what I had in mind: a dark golden brown, chewy roll, whose open (read: hole-y) texture is perfect for collecting the rivulets of vinaigrette and bits of chopped tomato, onion, and pepper I consider a key part of any Italian cold cut sub.

Ready to try a new type of no-knead bread? Looking for a good sandwich roll? Let’s do it.


Mix the following ingredients together in a bowl large enough that flour doesn’t spill  over the sides, and large enough for the dough to rise once it’s mixed.

4 cups (17 ounces) King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour
2 teaspoons salt
1 teaspoon instant yeast
3 tablespoons Baker’s Special Dry Milk or nonfat dry milk powder
1 1/2 cups cool water
1/4 cup olive oil

Once everything is roughly combined (some floury patches will still be evident), take a dough scraper (first choice) or spatula and lift/fold the dough over on itself for 30 strokes. Let the dough rest for 20 minutes.

Give the dough 30 more strokes. Cover it, and let it rest for 20 minutes again.

Repeat the process one more time. By the end of this 20-minute rest, you will have stirred the dough three separate times over the course of an hour.

Now, give it 30 more strokes; see how it’s smoothed out (photo, bottom right), compared to when you first started?


Cover the bowl, and let the dough rise for 2 hours in a fairly warm spot; 75°F to 80°F is perfect. If you don’t have anywhere that warm, don’t stress; just set the bowl somewhere away from cold drafts.

After 2 hours, the dough will have risen, though not wildly. It’ll still be shiny, sticky and slack; but you should be able to work with it, so long as you grease or wet your hands.


Transfer the dough to a greased or floured work surface. Divide it into 5 pieces; each will be about 176g, or 6 1/4 ounces.

Gently push, prod, and pull each piece of dough into a log about 7″ to 8″ long. Keep your hands wet or oiled to facilitate this process. This isn’t a typically springy, elastic dough you can easily shape; as noted, it’s more a matter of push/pulling it into shape.

Transfer the logs to a lightly greased or, preferably, parchment-lined pan, spacing them across the length of the pan. A half-sheet pan is the perfect size.

Cover the pan with a large plastic cover, or drape the loaves with heavily greased plastic wrap or parchment. Let them rise until they’re noticeably puffy, 2 to 3 hours or so.

Towards the end of the rising time, preheat the oven to 475°F.


Uncover the rolls, and spritz them heavily with warm water.

Do they need to be slashed?

Well, I tried slashing, and it really isn’t necessary. Left unslashed, these rolls don’t split their sides like baguettes might.


Bake the rolls for 18 to 20 minutes, until they’re a dark golden brown. The rolls pictured above aren’t fully done…


…but these are.

Remove the rolls from the oven, and transfer them to a rack to cool.

See those two misshapen rolls in the middle? Those are the ones I slashed. Don’t go there.


While not evidencing the “holey-ness” of a well-made baguette, there are plenty of cracks and crevices to trap and hold your sandwich’s condiments.

And just as important, the roll itself is chewy, not soft; so it won’t disintegrate into mush under your delicious onslaught of cold cuts and juicy vegetables – or even better, meatballs and sauce!

Read, bake, and review (please) our recipe for No-Knead Chewy Sandwich Rolls.

Print just the recipe.

Want to try making a classic crusty baguette using this no-knead baguettes de tradition method? Omit this recipe’s olive oil and dry milk; and increase the water to 1 2/3 cups.

PJ Hamel

PJ Hamel was born in Wisconsin, grew up in New England, and graduated from Brown University. She was a journalist in Massachusetts and Maine before joining the King Arthur Flour Company in 1990, where she's been ever since. Author or co-author of three King Arthur ...


  1. "Maggie Wriggles"

    Is there a way I can use some of my starter in making these rolls?
    Sure thing. Just replace 1/2 cup of the water and 1 cup of the flour with 1 cup of your starter. The more flavor the better! ~ MaryJane

    1. Meghan

      Is the starter fed or unfed? I am making sourdough bread too today so I have fed only. Can I use 1 cup of fed starter?

  2. "daisy in nj"

    OK, call me lazy, but I have to ask: is the hand-stirring an essential component to attaining success with this recipe, or could true sloths utilize a stand mixer at 20 minute intervals to stir the dough? (My guess is no, but surely I’m not the only one wondering…I hope!)

    Of course you can use your mixer at 20 second intervals in a low speed. Just be careful not to over knead! Betsy@KAF

    Daisy, not sure they’ll come out the same – there’s something about turning the soft dough over with a dough scraper that really develops it – but give it a try and let us know, OK? PJH

  3. Rockycat

    Two questions:
    1) I don’t normally have milk powder in the house. Do you recommend a substitution or simply omitting it? What would be the effect of omitting the milk?
    2) Would it make sense to try to bake the rolls on a baking stone or is the dough too sticky to make that work?

    Milk is usually added for color and flavor, but mostly color. You don’t have to omit it, instead use 1 cup of water and 1/2 cup of milk both at room temperature. You can go ahead and bake them on your stone if they are on parchment. Just transfer the parchment to the stone. Happy baking! Betsy@KAF

  4. gaitedgirl

    My husband is going to be a very, very happy man. He loves eating sandwiches on long rolls like that (he especially loves my meatball sandwiches, complete with homemade sauce and meatballs) but we’ve gotten to the point where we don’t like purchasing rolls from the grocery store due to the all the preservatives in them. (I’ve spoiled him on homemade breads. Not a bad thing!) But now, seeing how simply these are, I can make him some homemade rolls!!!

    I’m guessing these would freeze well if they were wrapped really tightly, like I do with the hamburger buns?
    Do you have any idea how much I’ve been craving homemade meatballs, you devil you? Yes, the rolls will freeze just fine, like the buns. I’d better plan out a meatball-makin’ day soon! ~ MaryJane

  5. jlaur

    Hi, Good afternoon, I haven’t tried the this recipe as of yet, but will, would I be able to use this recipe and how would I make the crust soft with a soft interior.

    I have enjoyed your other no-knead recipes, they are delicious

    Hi there,
    No knead breads such as this tend to give a chewier exterior. Have you tried out Burger Buns recipe? It would make excellent sub rolls with a soft crust and soft crumb. ~ MaryJane

  6. Barbara

    Nope. There’s no way I’m abandoning the Beautiful Burger Buns recipe. My hubby says it is his idea of heaven. I love them too, and I’ve never eaten anything better. Don’t mess with perfection, I always say!

    Barbara, so glad to hear about your loyalty to BBBs – our site’s #1 recipe! However, they’re VERY different rolls. The BBBs are soft and fine-grained and tender, with a very soft “bite.” These chewy rolls are much coarser texture and, as their name indicates – chewy, not tender. I think there’s room for both of these recipes in your repertoire – give ‘em a try sometime! PJH

  7. stk

    Hi, one quick question , if I use an instant read thermometer at what temp are they done?

    Around 200°F to 205°F should do it – if you want them deeper brown, just leave them in a bit longer. PJH

  8. Teresa F.

    You had me at ‘chewy.’ They sound sooo good. It’s not easy to find chewy rolls, not to mention making them. I’m also very excited at the idea that I can still use my mixer on low with 20 minute rests. Should I count 30 strokes with the mixer?

    Thank you for showing why slashing is not a good idea for such a wet dough. I’ve had identical looking results when making the baguettes.

    Teresa, let the mixer go for 30 seconds on low, OK? Be sure to use the beater paddle, not the dough hook. Not sure you’ll get the same results, but I’m guessing it will work just fine. Let us know, OK? PJH

  9. jellysquare

    I am in the middle of making these and am waiting for the first 2 hour rise to be over. Very glad I came to the demo of the recipe, in the mean time, because I was trying to figure out about turning the dough out, was I suppose to flour the surface or not? This sentence was left in the recipe step 8, “Transfer the dough to a greased or floured work surface.” I knew there was something missing. Looking forward to having these with Sloppy Joes tomorrow evening.

    Thanks so much for your feedback – I’ve gone in and amended the recipe to add the step about flouring or lightly greasing your work surface. Hope your Sloppy Joes are wonderful! PJH

  10. jellysquare

    Glad I checked out the demo, because flouring the surface made a big difference. Also after the initial 2 hour rising, the dough was bubbly and very spongy looking. By the way, HOW do you divide something evenly by 5?

    Glad to hear the photos were helpful. You can eyeball dividing by 5 – but I use my trusty scale, which I absolutely wouldn’t bake without. Hope they turned out well for you – PJH

  11. SallyBR

    Great that you wrote this post! I cannot tell you how much it bothers me that people keep repeating that he “invented” that bread, when it is clearly not the case!

    anyway, awesome post!

    Thanks for the kind words!-Jon

  12. tandmj

    HIP HIP HOORAY!!! Crusty, chewy sub rolls have been taboo at our house since my son was diagnosed with egg allergies… lots of places use egg wash on their rolls for shine and color. :( And bakeries are NOT a safe place because of cross-contamination.

    I’m making a batch of these this weekend! Looks like subs are back on the menu!

    Please let us know how the recipe works for you!-Jon

  13. Sandy

    To divide the ball of dough into fifths (without a scale)–remember how to draw a star? Make marks at the edges for the points of a star and cut from the center out to the marks. Or, picture a clock face and cut from the center out to 12, then to 12 minutes, 24 minutes, 36 minutes and 48 minutes.

    Thanks for the tip! Cutting anything into fifths can be tricky, but this certainly helps.-Jon

  14. gigiormsby

    this may be a stupid question but, when you say “stir” do you really mean fold? It’s much easier for me to fold then stir a big old bucket of dough

    Sure – that’s exactly what I mean, fold away. And thanks for the feedback; I’ve amended the language in both blog and recipe. Cheers! PJH


    Very interested in trying these rolls. Any thoughts on the impact of replacing half the AP flour with White Whole Wheat? Always trying to make things a little healthier! ;)

    I think that would work just fine. And I’m absolutely going to try the same thing next time – I’m with you, I’ve been subbing white whole wheat flour for at least half the AP flour in every recipe I can lately. Let us know how they turn out, OK? PJH

  16. PBfromMN

    A slightly different comment here-I have that little booklet called the “Bread Basket” from Fleischmann’s Yeast. It was my Grandmother’s. I have not made the recipe you refer to but I recognized the recipe and picture. On occasion I do like to make the sponge method bread recipe that is included in the booklet (I add some whole grains though).

    PB from MN

    What a cherished link to the past to have Grandma’s baking resource! We’re proud of you for making the traditional recipe so “today” by incorporating whole grains.
    Happy Baking – Irene@KAF

  17. jellysquare

    The rolls were very tasty and held up well under the Sloppy Joe mix, yummy with a slice of Havarti cheese. However the rolls ended up only about 1″-1-1/2″ high. After the first rise the dough was very spongy, and had risen quite a bit. It also was hard to handle, because it was so soft, didn’t look like yours at all. The rolls rose, but flattened out when baked. I followed the recipe exactly, weighing the flour. However, I live at 5600 feet, so I am thinking that I would need to add at least one more ounce of flour at the outset. What do you think?

    I think you’re right – at altitude, it’s good to cut back the yeast by about 25%. And yes, it sounds like there was just a bit too much liquid; either cut back on the liquid, or increase the flour (as you note) next time. Glad they were tasty, anyway! PJH

  18. Teresa F.

    Thanks, PJ, for clarifying that I should use the paddle and not the hook, if I were to try mixing the dough with the machine. I haven’t tried it yet, but will let you know how it goes.

    Can I make these with white whole wheat flour?

    Teresa, you can certainly substitute white whole wheat for at least some of the AP flour. Keep in mind the greater percentage of whole wheat, the lower-rising, denser rolls you’ll make. I’d suggest starting with 1 cup of white wheat subbed for 1 cup of the AP; if you like that, then gradually increase the percentage. Let us know how they come out, OK? PJH

  19. candela_59

    First, Jellysquare~ I lived at 5300 feet for years and I just automatically would cut my yeast back by 25%. This was the easiest and most dependable fix I’ve ever found for yeasted doughs. Then just adjust water/flour until you have a the desired tackiness for your dough. There’s also a cookbook for high altitude baking. I believe it is called “Pie In The Sky”. If you google it there’s a website too with a wonderful cheat sheet for baking in the “sky”. Good luck!

    Now, my question, can I sub dry buttermilk powder for the dried milk? I’ve always done it in the past but just want to run it by you first. I was going to ask about subbing White Whole Wheat flour but see that some savvy folks beat me to the punch! Thanks for all the wonderful recipes and advice.

    Thank you for helping out Jellysquare. Also, I find retarding the dough in the frig helps to slow everything down and develops more flavor, too. As far as the buttermilk powder in place of the milk powder, yes you may make the swap. Enjoy! Elisabeth

  20. W

    No knead bread is great – so why does KAF even make any bread that must be kneaded?

    It’s not easy to make a good no-knead bread with fine, light texture – think a high-rising, tender sandwich bread. Breads like that really do better with full kneading. Also, no-knead trades time in the fridge for effort – if you want same-day bread, you really have to speed the dough development (gluten development) along by physically working the dough, rather than letting it develop slowly, on its own, as it rests/rises in the fridge – as no-knead doughs often do. That said, we urge you to try any bread recipe using the no-knead method – and if you like the results, go for it! PJH

  21. W

    Another question

    I have become addicted to the book, Bread in five minutes A Day. Can this recipe be started the day before and left in the fridge overnite?


    Yes, sure. Just let the dough rise for about 1 hour at room temperature, then refrigerate, covered, overnight. Next day, shape the rolls (it’ll be easier, since the dough is cold), and let rise until puffy. This will take longer than the recipe indicates, since the dough will be cold. Enjoy – let us know how it goes, OK? PJH

  22. Jane H.

    Super easy. I cheated and made six rolls. After the first hour how exact shoud the timing be?

    Timing doesn’t need to be exact at all, Jane – it’s more important for the dough to rise as indicated in the directions and in the photos, rather than put a stopwatch to it. Hope you enjoyed those six easy rolls! PJH

  23. jmanni

    This is the first no-knead recipe that came out wonderfully for me! Thank you! I had quite a panic over the softness and stickiness of the dough (ok, so I cursed and almost cried. I’ll admit it) so I put it in a pan I have like the Italian Loaf Pan and used the parchment too. It made some cute little baguette type breads (this is a halved recipe):

    Now that I’m familiar with the feel of the dough (oil on my hands worked better for me than water) and know a few tricks, I won’t have to curse and/or cry.

    Most importantly, it’s delicious! We ate it with our Big Sunday Dinner pot of gravy (tomato sauce to the non-Italian Americans) and penne, home made roasted peppers, and Grana Padano cheese. My husband is eating it toasted with butter for breakfast as I write this. Yum, yum, yum. I’m definitely trying it with a big, sloppy hoagie (sub) or yes, meatball sandwich next.

    I also appreciate the history lesson. :)

    Gosh, I love making bread, and King Arthur has so much to do with that. I really do thank you from the bottom of my heart!

    Oh, my – I’m so sorry we made you curse and cry! And glad you got through the process, “know” the dough, and can enjoy the rolls going forward. Thanks for the picture – they look just right. Your description of your dinner sounds so familiar – I’ve been enjoying dinners with those components for well over 35 years (though my in-laws simply call the gravy sauce). I have a pot of meatballs/sausage in “gravy” in the fridge right now, left over from yesterday… Thanks for connecting here! PJH

  24. Teresa F.

    I replaced a cup of the AP flour with WWW and made it with the manual method rather than using a mixer on low. My results taste fine, but did not end up with separate rolls. Mine merged together into flatter loaves during the proofing after I formed the loaves. I got bigger holes than yours. I wonder what happened. They taste good, but I have to work on the looks. Any ideas?

    Teresa, use a bit less water (try 1 1/4 cups); and let the dough rest for 30 minutes before you start the scooping/turning process. That should help – you may get slightly smaller holes, but also taller rolls that don’t turn into one big, chewy, flat hamburger bun! :) PJH

  25. catwoman60010850

    How can I add seeds to the top of these? Thanks! Can’t wait to try this recipe!
    Just dampen the shaped rolls with a wet cloth and dip the tops in seeds before proofing! ~Amy

  26. Teresa F.

    PJ- Thanks for the tip to reduce the water. It worked out well. My previous experience with the giant merged rolls might have been aggravated by me using water to keep my hands from sticking while I was shaping the loaves. This time I used oil on my hands and a little less water in the dough. They came out much better. I got individual rolls. A couple of them grew together, but not like before. Next time I’ll remember to let the dough rest before turning! Thanks! I really like these.

    Good show, Teresa – bake on! :) PJH

  27. CCutrone123

    Hmm… I seem to be having the same problem as Teresa F… This is my first attempt at making these rolls and I also subbed WWW for half of the AP flour. The dough looked very wet and it spread out considerably on the baking sheet. I know that WWW requires more water than AP flour so I went ahead and used the entire amount of water… maybe I should have cut back some? Anyway, too late now to fix… the rolls are having their final proof on the baking sheet, and they’ll go into the oven as they are. They’ll probably taste just fine, but wind up looking rather flat. Oh well…

    Actually, I don’t increase the amount of water when I sub whole wheat for part of the AP in my bread recipes; I find that unless I let the dough rest quite awhile, for the ww to absorb the water, it really doesn’t make any difference in the kneading. Also, this time of year, if you’re somewhere hot/humid, you’ll want to cut back a bit on the liquid. That said – you may be surprised at home much your rolls pick up in the oven. Remember, they’re supposed to be a bit flat, rather than rounded like a baguette; so you might just get the perfect result. At any rate, I’ll bet they’ll taste good… :) PJH

  28. CCutrone123

    Hi PJH, thanks for your prompt response. Sorry to report they came out flat as a pancake! And I’m in So. Calif. so it’s not hot or humid right now. I’m not sure where I went wrong… but I’ll give it another whirl with less water next time.

    Trimming back by an ounce of water would help things dramatically: try using 11 oz instead of 12 oz with this dough and see if that helps–even if you use half WWW flour, too. The hydration will be at 64% (and there will also be a few tablespoons of oil to add to the mix). Best, Kim@KAF

    1. Chit

      Thanks for that tip PJ. Mine too came out very flat. I suspected because I live in the tropics and it’s our summer here so I suspect too humid and hot. So I will just have to lessen the water next time. However this is very good! the texture looks the same in the photo…taste I love…the crust a bit crunchy for my husband but perfect for me…thanks very much PJ.

  29. CCutrone123

    Hi Kim, thanks for the suggestion! I will definitely try that next time I attempt to make these rolls. Everything else I’ve tried from the KAF recipe collection has been terrific. The one thing different for me this time was the manual lift/fold technique. I’ve always used my Kitchen Aid for the kneading part. Will report back with results next time I make this recipe & will probably try this during the week when the Baker’s hotline is available for a quick phone consultation if necessary!

  30. CCutrone123

    So I made these again after my major disappointment with the first attempt… and I’m pleased to report, the 2nd batch was a HUGE SUCCESS!! I used the same 50% WWW and 50% AP flour as I did the first time. I let everything sit for 30 minutes before beginning the “no knead” process to allow the water to absorb into the flour. I reduced the water to the minimum amount but found I had to add back a little bit more as I went along (although I didn’t wind up using the full amount listed). I used my KitchenAid with the paddle beater to mix on speed 1 for 20 seconds versus the manual lift/fold technique. I lightly floured my board for the final shaping (versus oiling). All in all, a smashing success & I can’t wait to do it again!
    Wahoo! So, good to hear. I love your persistence. Elisabeth


    Might be just me, but it looks like you’re missing one 20 min. rest in the description here. The recipe shows a 20 min. rest between first and second 30 stroke stirs, but the description above does not. I assume it just got missed. Trying this recipe today.
    Thanks mom! We’ve added it in to the blog now. ~ MJ

  32. Tammi

    I am trying a batch now but during the loaf rise they spread out into HUGE flattish loaves with lots of bubbles on the surface. Did I let them rise too much in 2 hours?

    Should be OK, Tammi, unless they’re flatter than you like – in which case next time, use a bit less water. Hope you enjoy them – PJH

  33. Tammi

    Thanks for answering PJ…they were very flat. I was thinking I overproofed the batch. They never rose during the baking process. Is that a good indication of overproofing?

    It is certainly one indication of over-proofing. Another sign is that your breads collapse before or after baking.-Jon

    I’m thinking your dough was too slack (as well as over-proofed, as Jon indicates); it simply didn’t have the structure to rise up, not flatten out. During the summer, or when it’s humid, it’s good to cut back on the liquid in any yeast bread recipe. Practice makes “perfect” – and remember, it’s as much the journey as the destination. :) PJH

  34. LF

    Based on the earlier question & reply (pasted below), are all/none/some of the lift & folds necessary & how would or wouldn’t they affect the outcome?

    W says:

    May 5, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    Another question

    I have become addicted to the book, Bread in five minutes A Day. Can this recipe be started the day before and left in the fridge overnite?


    Yes, sure. Just let the dough rise for about 1 hour at room temperature, then refrigerate, covered, overnight. Next day, shape the rolls (it’ll be easier, since the dough is cold), and let rise until puffy. This will take longer than the recipe indicates, since the dough will be cold. Enjoy – let us know how it goes, OK? PJH

    LF, sorry, I’m not seeing the connection between these questions. You’ll want to do all the folds if you’re not leaving the dough refrigerated for at least 12 hours, or overnight. Does that answer your question? PJH

  35. Andrew S

    First off, thanks for all the amazing posts and replies! You folks at KAF define what super helpful!

    Secondly, what is the key difference between these recipes (this and the baguette you link to above) and the very open texture of a typical artisan baked baguette? Is it the use of live yeast versus dry/instant?

    I’m an avid homebrewer with a small yeast lab in my garage, so I have lots of live yeast and bacteria in the fridge and the equipment to propagate lots of live yeast that are ready to pitch into my dough… but before I sacrifice my beloved fungi, I’d like some insight from you folks.

    Andrew, it’s not the type of yeast that determines the texture of the bread; it’s mainly the liquid/flour ratio, with a softer dough generally yielding larger holes. Also, letting the dough rest in the fridge for awhile can help create those larger holes. If you’re hesitant to “sacrifice” your live yeast, go ahead and use instant; it works just fine. PJH

  36. Kathleen

    Thanks for the recipe! I subbed white whole wheat for the all purpose flour, 17 ounces, didn’t measure in cups. I also added 4 tbsp vital wheat gluten. I did not have any milk powder so I just left it out, but I wish I had seen the advice about using milk instead. Anyway, I followed all the other directions to a tee an they turned out great! Really nice flavor from the long rise, nice and chewy and bubbly on the inside. Also, the advice about using a dough scraper instead of spatula was right on, I broke my spatula turning the dough.

  37. Ching

    These look soooo good! I’ve just tried a no-knead refrigerator bread recipe lately where you mix the dough, let it rise, then stick it in the refrigerator in an airtight container to develop its flavor, and each time you need to bake just take a hunk of dough out to make a small loaf and the rest of the dough can be kept in the refrigerator for later use. Will I be able to do the same with this dough? I would love to try a no-knead refrigerator bread with a softer sandwich loaf-like crust… If you have any suggestions I’d really appreciate it :)

    1. PJ Hamel , post author

      Ching, this recipe isn’t really formulated to be no-knead. You could refrigerate it after you’re done kneading, and use it up to maybe 2 days later; but longer than that, not sure how it would go… I hear what you mean about softer no-knead breads. My suggestion? Check out “Artisan Breads in Five Minutes a Day,” which I believe has recipes for softer breads using the no-knead/fridge method. It’s a very popular book, and I’m betting you could find it at your local library if you don’t want to buy it sight unseen. Enjoy – PJH

  38. Ching

    Oh thanks for the quick reply and the tip PJ! I’ll check it out! Love your posts, thanks for sharing your recipes and knowledge :)

  39. Connie S.

    It is a good thing that my computer screen is upright instead of on the desk in front of me…I am starting to drool just thinking about these rolls. Made them last week. Refrigerated overnight before letting the dough rise. Took dough out of fridge in the afternoon, shaped them into rolls, not baguettes. Let them rise, then baked a few on parchment, the rest on non stick foil and we like the foil rolls the best.
    They are indescribably delicious! ! !. The chewiness we have been searching for combined with wonderful taste. I sprinkled them with a lot of sesame and poppy seeds. I’ve made them 3 times so far. The second time I somehow managed to leave out the milk powder and the right taste was not there. We all LOVE this recipe..thank you very much.
    I am not new to baking but am new to using KA flour…I will never use another brand after using KA. The difference in the dough and taste is amazing. Even filling my flour bin caused me to tell my hubs to come see the “silkiness” of the KA flour. Made the “stuffing bread” today. It is cooling now. Yes…drooling again. :)

    1. PJ Hamel , post author

      Connie, thanks so much for all your enthusiasm and kind words here! I just enjoyed one of those rolls at supper tonight – cut it lengthwise, brushed with olive oil, and toasted in the oven until crunchy. They’re quickly becoming my favorite, too; and I love how the dough “kneads itself” so nicely, don’t you? Welcome to the King Arthur family, BTW – thanks so much for inviting us into your kitchen. Cheers – PJH

  40. SilentJake

    Wow, wow, wow!! I baked thsese for sandwhich, and they were fantastic!
    I started the dough around 7:30am, and used luke warm water and proofed it in the warm oven to speed up the process. I’m sure a longer rise would’ve contributed to the flavor, but wanted them ready by lunch.
    The crust were thin and crispy, the crumb creamy, chewy AND holey, just as described. It’s a small luxury to make sandwhich with bread that’s fresh out of the oven.
    Thank you PJ, for testing and developing such a wonderful recipe!

    1. PJ Hamel , post author

      Thanks to our fellow bakers in France for that fun and simple kneading method, Jake – I just put together some likely ingredients. They ARE good though, aren’t they? I like to split them in half to make two long, thin pieces, and make garlic bread out of them. YUMMMMM… :) PJH

  41. Peter

    Hi PJ,

    I have a request for you. I need your help to recreate this Beckman Old World Bakery’s Francese Deli Roll. They are so good but very expensive. The ingredients are on their website

    They use Ingredients:
    Unbleached wheat flour, water, sea salt, yeast, malt and vitamin C (in trace amounts).

    Which KAF recipe should I follow to yield the same type of bread. This bread has a slightly soft crust. They hold well in a sandwich. I guess vitamin C here is optional.

    Looking forward for your guidance. Many thanks. Regards, Peter.

    1. MaryJane Robbins

      Hi Peter,
      While we wish we had the time and resources to help recreate favorite commercials products, we simple just can’t offer that kind of service. We would suggest checking our archives online for rolls/buns of similar description and also try searching for copycat recipes that might exist online. Once you have a base recipe, make small adjustments, keep good notes and you should end up with a product you are happy to bake. Best of luck with your journey! ~ MJ

    2. PJ Hamel , post author

      Peter, I think you chose the exact right blog post in your quest to make these rolls; while the ingredients in these no-knead rolls aren’t exactly the same I think you’ll find the results very similar. Enjoy – PJH

  42. Peter

    Dear MJ and PJH, thank you for your response.

    PJH, I appreciate you for letting me know that I chose the exact blog post. I am going to try and make these rolls following the above method using the desired ingredients. May be I will have to try a few times. Am confident that eventually I will get the desired result. Failures are stepping stones to success, aren’t they PJH? And I am not afraid to fail, at least I can say that I tried. PJH, your responses are always encouraging. And you always inspire me to give it a shot. Thank you so much.

    1. PJ Hamel , post author

      Glad we could help, Peter. The vitamin C is there to help the yeast grow (as is the malt), but neither is necessary; give the yeast time, and it’ll do its thing. The key part of all this is the hydration – the ratio of liquid to flour. If you just want to use flour, water, salt, and yeast, you might be interested in trying our baguette formula, either kneading the standard way, or using the method in this blog post. The resulting loaves will be more baguette-like: a bit drier inside, with a harder crust, which is a typical result when you don’t use oil or milk. If you give both recipes a try, I think you’ll both add to your experience, and find which suits you best. Enjoy – PJH

    1. The Baker's Hotline

      Hi Francis, you might try prefermenting a portion of the sub rolls’ flour. I would suggest pulling 1 cup of flour and 2/3 cup of water from the main dough, and mixing these together the night before you mix with a pinch of yeast.~Jaydl@KAF

  43. Aly

    I made your baguette last week and these buns yesterday, a big success. I like that the buns are flat, I use them to make school lunch and a not too thick sandwich is easier for the little ones to bite into. I do have a question: I find the bread a bit salty, can I reduce the salt?

    1. MaryJane Robbins

      Yes, you could reduce the salt by up to half and still get a fine result with your yeast breads. ~ MJ

  44. Chit

    Hi PJ….I did this and it was okay…except that I did not get those big holes which is what I wanted so much and it did not brown as much…maybe has to do with my oven. It wasn’t as chewy but good enough…the crust was thin….however it tasted good and still good for sandwiches…I believe errors must be on my part living in a tropical country…so there must be lots of differences? Thank you very much though…just enjoy following you!


    1. The Baker's Hotline

      Hi Chit- That is a tricky one for sure. The first thing I would recommend you do is to make sure your oven is up to temp, as having a really nice initial blast of heat will make a big difference in your rolls internal structure. Also, if you would like to give our Baker’s Hotline a call at 855-371-2253, we could maybe try to talk through the recipe a bit more with you to see if we can figure out what else might be going on. Happy Baking! Jocelyn@KAF

    1. PJ Hamel , post author

      Sorry, not understanding your question. Here are the recipe ingredients, as listed on the recipe page. Looks like 2 teaspoons salt to me?
      4 cups King Arthur Unbleached All-Purpose Flour
      2 teaspoons salt
      1 teaspoon instant yeast
      3 tablespoons Baker’s Special Dry Milk or nonfat dry milk powder
      1 1/2 cups cool water
      1/4 cup olive oil

      Can you clarify where you might have seen 1 teaspoon salt, Robert? Thanks – PJH

  45. Randy

    Tried this and had a terrible time with the dough. I sub’ed in a cup of sourdough starter as described on a previous comment. The dough was so sticky I felt like I was pulling half the roll onto my fingers as I shaped it. I ended up adding a lot of flour into the dough while shaping, and they were still rather sticky. Maybe I used too wet of a sourdough starter?

    In any case, maybe I will try without the starter and see if the dough is more manageable. I am also recovering from a broken hand, so I will wait until that heals up a bit…was very strenuous using my non dominant hand to fold the dough over!

    1. PJ Hamel , post author

      Yes, Randy, it could be your starter was more hydrated than the hydration level of the dough you make when following the recipe, and that extra liquid may have tipped it over into unworkable. And yeah – your broken hand probably didn’t help with the whole process, either! I’d say try it again, perhaps without the sourdough starter at first, to see what the dough should look like; then, when you make them again, add the starter, and enough additional flour to replicate that original texture. Good luck – hope the healing is going well. :) PJH

    2. The Baker's Hotline

      Hi Randy, I’m sorry you had difficulty with this recipe. It could well be that a very wet starter might contribute to a stickier dough. And a weak hand would definitely make this recipe harder to handle! Let us know how it goes the next time you try it. And I hope your hand heals up nicely and soon! Barb@KAF

  46. catlick

    I added my starter, and these rolls were KILLER! Exactly like described…I doubled the recipe and tomorrow I am making the other half with a 24 hour refrigerated dough….(because I just have to try it). These truly are a perfect Italian hoagie style sandwich roll…not too much bread, nice and domed. Gorgeous color. Nice chew, but you don’t have to wrestle. I covered my baking pan with a large aluminum foil serving pan for the first 10 minutes with ice thrown on the baking sheet. Took it off and let it continue to brown…nice fermentation bubbles came up. There should be even more with an overnight rest….Thank you SO much. Tell King Arthur to give you a substantial raise!

  47. Sandra Z

    WOW! This is the hoagie recipe I have been trying to make for years! Thank you! My dough was a little dry so I added a bit more water – I also used 17 oz of flour as noted in the recipe, not the weight of 4 cups calculated from the back of KA flour (in grams) – that would have been way too much flour. My rolls turned out exactly as pictured and not to “bready” not too tough. I may try and break up the time overnight – example – go through the three “stirs” then pop in the fridge overnight to retard growth then pull out in morning and go from there (after a bit of wake up) – OR possibly do the 2hr rise in the bowl day 1 then in fridge… shape and last rise next day. Have you tried any of these methods? (these are techniques I learned from Peter Reinhart books and have worked well in the past)
    Thanks so much for this GREAT recipe!!!

    1. PJ Hamel , post author

      Sandra, so glad to hear these rolls have worked out well for you! While I haven’t tried resting the dough overnight in the fridge with this particular recipe, I have with other similar recipes, and it works out fine. You just need to know that once you take it out, the dough will rise more slowly, due to having been chilled. Enjoy – PJH

    2. Sandraz

      I did it, put in fridge right after the stirring sessions. I doubled overnight. Took out 3hrs before baking. I shaped them cold and put in a 85 ish degree oven with light on. First hour, not too much change, next half hour, they doubled…so I knew they were ready. I like the way they are more flat than high…better for hoagies. I baked for 20 mins at 475. I used a cast iron skillet in pre heat…the water to steam. They were awesome…slightly more holy and slightly less dense. Thank you!

  48. Kathy

    I tried making these today and they turned out really flat. It live in MD and it’s very cold right now….I noticed from the start the dough wasn’t sticky at all. And the rolls had time to do the final rise for 5 hours because we had to run out. Do I need to add more water and cut down on final rise time? Thanks!!!

    1. The Baker's Hotline

      Yes, that is exactly what you will need to do! I imagine that the quite extensive final rise played a pretty big part in the flat buns. Jon@KAF

  49. Pierre535

    My second attempt at making these, this time I divided into six rolls. They bake up nice and get good size holes with following exception: first batch, I baked for 18 minutes, bottoms were borderline burned. This second batch, baked for 15 minutes, bottoms not burned but very dark brown. I regularly calibrate my oven, so I know that isn’t the problem. I don’t have a stone, so I use a baking sheet lined with aluminum foil and sprayed lightly with Pam. Wonder if that is the problem? My Reynolds Parchment Paper is only good to 420° so hesitate to try that. Would it be better to use flour on the aluminum foil? I may try that next time. These are really great sandwich rolls, they do put up a good fight when shaping, but the results are worth it!

    1. The Baker's Hotline

      The foil reflects the heat back to the bottom of the rolls, so that’s causing the browning. You might try a different brand of paper, or maybe raising your shelves up a bit from the bottom, or double panning so there is an air layer between the heat source and the bottom of the pan. Happy baking! Laurie@KAF

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